Since all threading is lost offline, how about hyperlinking the message number back to the original on yahoo? So you can e.g. do a search offline, then jump to yahoo to follow a thread.
Rich
Great idea.
Another spin off, while it wouldn't be perfect, is to have the program auto search the next 100-200 messages for "Re: <original subject>" and have that pop up on a side window.
If you sort by subject you get better threading than Yahoo offers as only messages which are replied to online are threaded.
Best thing is to sort by subject then select the entire thread, right click & choose 'Show selection as Digest'.
Cheers,
Wilson.
Quote from: Wilson Logan on March 27, 2004, 12:49:26 PM
... as only messages which are replied to online are threaded.
You've said that before, and I don't believe it is true at all. It depends on how your email client formats the header maybe. 99% of the time I use courier email. When I look at a post of mine, I can go to the parent, and I do see responses (of course the responses have nothing to do with my post, or do they?). E.g. look at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/penturners/message/44728 . It was made using my Courier email client. It is threaded.
The 'by thread' view appears not to work too well. I don't know it there is a timespan limitation or what, and I don't use that all that much, but I find 'up thread' very useful, as well as the responses listed below a message.
I just went and created a msg in a test group using Courier. When it came back, I replied using courier. It is properly threaded on yahoo! I made another offline response to the response, and everyhting show properly threade. I believe the same is true for the common outlook express, but I have no idea how universal this is.Rich
Rich,
OK, OK, I'm talking crap. I just assumed because Oulook doesn't thread (OK, *I've* not noticed it threading) that all email clients don't thread. I accept that this isn't the case.
However.... PGO still does just as good a job at keeping a thread together as Yahoo e.g.
http://www.pgoffline.com/images/threading-1.jpg
http://www.pgoffline.com/images/threading-2.jpg
Slightly better in fact. PGO's messages are at least in the correct order.
What could be better is the addition of 'up thread', 'down thread' buttons. PGO knows what all the members of a thread are so I guess this will be possible.
Cheers,
Wilson.
Quote from: Wilson Logan on March 27, 2004, 06:50:39 PM
What could be better is the addition of 'up thread', 'down thread' buttons. PGO knows what all the members of a thread are so I guess this will be possible.
That would be good! It'll integrate nicely with what you have announced for the next release - navigational buttons previous/next
Down thread would be a lttle tricky because while Up thread is unique, Down thread is not because there may be MANY responses. So it'd pretty much have to have the responses listed like yahoo.
Rich
I think in this case 'down thread' would have to mean previous message in date/time sequence.
Cheers,
Wilson.
Yeah, I guess threading in the pgoffline sense is not real threading, just a grouping by subject, and in time sequence. Different ways to skin that cat :-)
Rich
I'd prefer real threading too but we can only work with what we have. The solution in PGO is a compromise but I think its the best possible one, if thats any consolation :)
I understand.
But, is it really impossible? When you view a msg online, you see at the bottom of each if it has been replied to. Couldn't you on principle reconstruct exactly the same threading table (or however this info is kept) that yahoo has? Naturally, what's broken there could not be reconstructed locally. You may still say there's not enough bang for the buck - I'm just trying to understand the difficulties vs. the impossibilities
Rich
Rich,
I've run a little test on a test group I have. Its called LiveInterface.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LiveInterface/
There's only 23 messages in the group. You can look at them, as the group archive is public.
Now... I have created some new messages. 18, 19 & 20 are replies to 15. 21 is a reply to 20, 22 is a reply to 21 & 23 is a reply to 22.
If you look in Yahoo, the threading in 18, 19 & 20 only relates to 15, unlike those in 21, 22 & 23 which relate to each other sequentially.
The former simulates how people really post. When people reply to messages they reply to the original but they also read the other replies. If Yahoo was really threaded, each message that is a reply to 15 would be one after the other in sequence like 21,22,33 but thats not how it works.
If you sort these messages with PGO it gets them in the right order.
Now... the transition from 22 to 23 is the most interesting. Yahoo can relate two unrelated subject lines together if one is a reply to the other. PGO cannot do that.
I'm thinking that we could have a hybrid solution where PGO's method takes preference where the subjects are the same but Yahoo's method takes preference when the subjects differ.
So, for each message, PGO would have 2 new database fields... say 'forward' and 'back'. Each field carries the next or previous message number for that thread. PGO sets up these fields from Subject & Date unless Yahoo indicates that it should be linking to a dissimilar Subject.
Thoughts?
Wilson.
hope you don't mind I joined this group. That way I don't hav eto set up my own test group, nor mess up my other groups ;)
Rich
You're absolutely right, I hadn't noticed... it's not properly threaded, since replies to replies do show up as replies...
:-[
Rich
Ah, ye of little faith !
But seriously... I have been know to make the ocassional gaff so its good that someones checking my logic :)
Cheers,
Wilson.
So a proper threading table could be constructed if one looked up the tree for each msg. That'd be really painful. The down links, since they show up on the msg screen, would be much easier, but apparently are not usable... Oh well, so much for that ;)
Rich
What I'm proposing is a combination approach but its only any good if we (PGO) stores the link data already. I don't fancy re-loading all my groups to get it.
Cheers,
Wilson.
Of course. But if were technically feasible, why not consider it for new groups? Actually, I hadn't noticed before, but the up-thread msg ID is available with each msg, as a hyperlink under the 'up thread' button. To tell you the truth, if threading were available, I would download my groups again, over time.
:)
Rich
Lacking this feature, makes the software total crap :-\
I was really happy about having found a tool that allows me to read my yahoo! groups offline but without that feature i am not able to use it. sorry, but this is something one can expect (especially if the software costs 16$ or 14?, respectively).
...and don't tell that it wasn't possible. it is!
>Lacking this feature, makes the software total crap
Whoa... harsh dude!
>I was really happy about having found a tool that allows me to read my yahoo! groups offline but without that feature i am not able to use it.
A feature that exists no where else, not even in Yahoo? What do you do now?
>sorry, but this is something one can expect (especially if the software costs 16$ or 14€, respectively).
I actually think that $16 is on the low side for software with as many features as PGO. Not to mention the support level.
>...and don't tell that it wasn't possible. it is!
What makes you think this feature isn't being developed? Its scheduled for release in about 11 working days along with 5 other new features.
Cheers,
Wilson.
Quote from: Wilson Logan on April 07, 2004, 04:14:41 PM
>sorry, but this is something one can expect (especially if the software costs 16$ or 14€, respectively).
I actually think that $16 is on the low side for software with as many features as PGO. Not to mention the support level.
I agree with you, Wilson. For the price, the level of support can't be beat.
The situation with PGO reminds me a lot of an online art class I took from an art instructor in Mexico. He charges $40 dollars for every four lessons, on a monthly basis - he gives you six weeks to use all four lessons. He has the whole bloomin 9 yards - whiteboard instruction - photoshop corrections - email support - live video feed with chat so that you could ask questions, and you could download the videos afterwards - but only if you "attended" the class. You could IM him during the week and he'd set aside time to critique your work and answer questions to problems.
I asked him why he didn't charge more. He said that he made enough money off selling his paintings and doing commisions that he didn't really need the money. He just liked doing it, because it kept his creativity flowing and offered constant practice. He was only charging enough to cover his expenses.
As a result, I'd gladly pay a higher price for his classes, because I know that the level of support he gives is incredible. Just like, I'd gladly pay more for PGO, as long as the level of support was maintained. The level of support you give will definitely make it's mark on your target audience (registered users), so keep up the good work guys.
Tammi